Artist Talks Special: Eran Shakine

00:00:04: Welcome to the podcast of The Jewish Museum Vienna for our new exhibition, A Muslim a Christian and a Jew.

00:00:11: A series of works by the artist Eran Schakine.

00:00:14: welcome!

00:00:15: Hello

00:00:17: I'm very happy that we made this exhibition happen as well.

00:00:22: you finally made it to Vienna.

00:00:25: It's your first time in Austria?

00:00:27: My third time here But my first time was like in the nineties, so I had a very different idea about Vienna and it looked very stucked up.

00:00:43: old and now I'm so excited about Vienna.

00:00:48: So much energy, a lot of beautiful art young people in the streets.

00:00:55: it reminds me of New York in East Village, the eighties.

00:01:01: I hope you heard very carefully.

00:01:04: It reminded me of New York.

00:01:07: That's really great, thankyou so much.

00:01:09: But this exhibition is your first solo exhibition in Austria as i understood.

00:01:14: Yes So we are very excited.

00:01:17: We brought the series a Muslim Christian energy to Vienna because In our times for us it sees that like groups are very much divided, and we were hoping to bring people together with this exhibition.

00:01:36: Was that your intention?

00:01:39: You cannot create art big intentions.

00:01:43: You know, I believe in the power of art but as an artist you cannot have like a great and very strong social or political idea... ...and then try to make it work through art.

00:02:00: First you do the art first..you feel what your feeling And after awhile there are few artworks.

00:02:12: what have I done, you know where it's going.

00:02:15: And then curator come and they say hey that's not a bad idea so let's make an

00:02:21: exhibition.".

00:02:22: That is such poetic approach.

00:02:25: i have to say your every painting starts with the same words A Muslim Christian and a Jew!

00:02:33: Then that reminds everybody of a joke.

00:02:36: but In my opinion, you don't follow the joke along.

00:02:41: You refuse it and tell a very different story.

00:02:46: Why does this series start with apart jokes?

00:02:50: I think first of all that sense of humor has a lot power.

00:02:55: And if you listen or read what Holocaust survivors were reading about how they survived the worst ever thing that happened to them, a lot of times it's by looking at the situation in humor way like Kishon.

00:03:18: You know, and I do believe that art can change the world but not if you wanted to it.

00:03:28: If your intentions are coming further very deep.

00:03:35: So this group of paintings, you know.

00:03:39: You have the drawing that it might look very funny or cartoonish in a way and then you have The text and you look at the texts And you look At the drawing.

00:03:51: something is should work.

00:03:53: Something will open A little door In your mind and you Might Look at things differently.

00:04:01: Let's get a Little bit more into The pictures, the pictures do have all of them.

00:04:08: Have three protagonists a Muslim Christian and the Jew And they look quite similar.

00:04:16: You know this is always the first question that anyone asked me.

00:04:20: So who's the Jew?

00:04:21: Who is the Christian?

00:04:23: Who was the muslim?

00:04:25: I did on purpose That anybody can choose who he wants to be in scenario, you know in this picture and to make them not identical they're NOT identical but they look very much the same as human beings.

00:04:45: Yeah maybe there are not identical but you can't see who's the Jew?

00:04:50: And who is the Muslim?

00:04:53: I love that very much for me.

00:04:56: with a text You said there is like sometimes it's a humorous picture and you have to text, then you realize that... not only the three men, the protagonists learn something in this scene you were painting but also yourself.

00:05:17: Because there are so many layers on your picture that just humorous sight and as well a strong poetic side of pictures.

00:05:27: I'm thinking for example one painting where the Muslim Christian and Jew walking in one direction.

00:05:35: they don't realize happiness was following them for quite some times.

00:05:40: and Happiness is a dog, tiny little dog.

00:05:43: And For me it's on the one hand if you are like stuck in your story You don't realize anything What arounds you?

00:05:54: On the other hand that happiness Is not always big thing.

00:05:59: It sometimes its little things That make you happy or bring you real happiness.

00:06:05: Yes absolutely I do believe in that.

00:06:09: And, uh...I really love this painting in particular because those three figures they even don't have features at all you know?

00:06:20: They don't has faces.

00:06:22: it's like the icons on a stop light and i was happy to see some stop lights in Vienna when we had couple A couple standing or a couple walking, that's the first time I saw this ever.

00:06:39: And it so nice because immediately when you have two... It is different story and i love this story working to distance even just crossing street but its working together.

00:06:59: Yeah, and I love it too because doing something together is always better than doing it alone.

00:07:07: It's almost like my paintings you know?

00:07:09: Its a very little trigger And You can choose just to obey the red light but also look at further and see oh maybe i'm not alone in this world.

00:07:22: Of course they're related.

00:07:24: there are abramic three main figures, you know?

00:07:29: Main brothers.

00:07:30: Main family and so they are related in this story.

00:07:35: but I don't see them as only that...I see them is human being.

00:07:41: that's related to each other As You can seen the painting when have mother holding those three babies identical twins The Muslim Christian and a Jew.

00:07:53: So This Is The One Mother that we all have.

00:07:58: That's so beautiful and... We only realized when we almost finished the exhibition, in some ways it follows from beginning to their birth to the end, because there is one painting I really love so much which is a Muslim Christian and a Jew realizing that in the end we are all the same.

00:08:24: And they're lying on hospital bed having blood transfusion maybe?

00:08:33: Yes!

00:08:33: We were made of the same blood as human beings.

00:08:40: asked before, what is?

00:08:42: if you want to break down the message of Eran Shakine?

00:08:46: What sentence would it be?

00:08:48: and I am very curious.

00:08:51: What do you think?

00:08:52: I would say that we are human beings.

00:08:56: in this being a part of humanity We have to live together And then make peace.

00:09:04: You know, there is a very interesting thing about blood.

00:09:08: Because in Israel for example I'm sure other places as well you get blood by the type of the blood and not by religion or... who's the person that gave you this blood, so it can be in a hospital and get blood from another religion.

00:09:35: And some people might resent that but I see as an other sign.

00:09:43: at the biology level we are all the same.

00:09:49: That is nice!

00:09:50: Actually i have very rare blood types Yes, so I've seen the exhibition was in... ...in Berlin and then it wasn't Munich or Amsterdam as well.

00:10:07: In Berlin and Munich at a Jewish museum And As i understood in Amsterdam in a Catholic Museum.

00:10:13: So how come?

00:10:15: How comes the Jewish Museum?

00:10:18: Why are these museums interested in your work?

00:10:22: I would show this exhibition in any museum.

00:10:25: It's just the one who offered me to do it, you know?

00:10:30: We were supposed to do that at the Cannes Museum of Toronto and a beautiful new museum by the Canne family because they chose not to exhibit this exhibition which I thought, that is exactly the time not do it.

00:10:56: Of course in my perspective of course and what i see a traveling exhibition in this sense, because the series was started around twenty fourteen.

00:11:12: But you are painting these series until today!

00:11:16: So it's every time that we have different pictures and new approaches.

00:11:22: for me as one of the curators I have to say... We chose to make an approach from exhibitions before changed circumstances, political circumstances.

00:11:37: We thought that we wanted to create a space where people feel safe and well.

00:11:46: so there is a lot of discussions going on about wellbeing in museums.

00:11:55: times of political crisis and war people don't feel safe, well anymore.

00:12:01: And when you look at art your like tense right now.

00:12:05: we feel especially in the Jewish Museum that People are tense.

00:12:10: so We wanted to create a space where You can get loose Where you can relax yourself?

00:12:22: Art is not something you have to consume as an intellectual citizen, but art is something that you consume with your whole body and mind.

00:12:37: As a human being!

00:12:39: And I think this relates so much to your art...

00:12:44: I'm now trying my art to soothe the people happy or comfortable.

00:12:54: This is not my point and it's really funny that in Israel, you know especially at the time of wars everyone going to opening exhibitions and going to museums because this a part of sanity You know, especially when everything is collapsing around you.

00:13:18: You're looking for something to hold and culture an art this the stick in water that might save your life?

00:13:29: Of course!

00:13:30: And I have to admit at opening night i was standing infront of exhibition watching people coming out of it really...I don't exaggerate everyone was smiling everyone was feeling better, especially in times of war.

00:13:46: Yes art is so... it's a way not off getting away and avoiding all this but still feeling yourself being creative even if its just your mind or as an exhibition you can also paint yourself.

00:14:08: I think it's a coping mechanism in one way, but then... In the other ways is very healthy.

00:14:16: Generally and i think in your exhibition especially because when I walk through your exhibition all this saying or political noise that screams at you every day for twenty four hours These different religious groups cannot and never live together.

00:14:40: And that we have to exclude one group or more than one group, to be safe... Then you enter the exhibition!

00:14:51: The exhibition tells in some way these cooperation this life in togetherness might be possible?

00:15:07: I see it a little bit different.

00:15:12: We all have our stories and stories are very much important for human beings, society and we built our story build around us.

00:15:29: By the age of five you have your story all figured out, you know?

00:15:33: Your mother or father...your religion..your social background.

00:15:40: And this is a lot pressure because sometimes You feel inside that it's not hundred percent to.

00:15:52: And I think this exhibition allows you to step, two steps aside and look at it.

00:16:00: Is is my story or somebody else's stories?

00:16:05: Choose your own story!

00:16:08: With that idea i will smile.

00:16:11: That's beautiful as well.

00:16:13: In the exhibition we created one room dedicated for the wall of tolerance.

00:16:18: How important are these for us?

00:16:21: I would do a wall of tolerance in the city center, you know?

00:16:25: Like huge walls that anyone can come and express themselves.

00:16:40: by doing graffiti.

00:16:41: I'm not sure it's true, but I heard something like that and i think that graffiti is very important for people to express themselves.

00:17:00: all kinds of machines.

00:17:05: You feel something, you grab a pen and write what to fill... Of course some people write things that they don't agree with!

00:17:16: That's fine because especially with graffiti someone else puts another coat on the other.

00:17:27: and then it's like layers, and layers of creation.

00:17:32: And I found that really beautiful...I have a sculpture in the center of Tel Aviv for many years there, and every now-and then the city hall they call me.

00:17:44: And say oh we're very sorry someone make a graffiti on this sculpture?

00:17:51: We didn't clean it in time... I said no leave it!

00:17:56: This is part of the City.

00:17:58: This is Part Of Life.

00:18:00: This Is Reality.

00:18:01: Don't take out Out Of Reality.

00:18:04: Put Art Into The

00:18:06: Reality Because in some ways, people react to your sculpture by doing a graffiti on it.

00:18:14: So at least I think the worst thing which can happen to art is that nobody notices and nobody cares.

00:18:22: so no one would put a graffiti onto.

00:18:25: You could put it away as well.

00:18:27: Nobody would care, so there's a great reaction when somebody adds

00:18:32: graffiti.".

00:18:33: So you created in this exhibition the whole wall for anyone to express himself and I think that is very brave thing to do especially at Jewish Museums!

00:18:54: and you go further.

00:18:56: You know?

00:18:58: And not trying to keep it aside, safe white walls.

00:19:05: everything is nice but only inside.

00:19:08: the outside isn't allowed in.

00:19:11: I think this fits perfectly with exhibition.

00:19:13: and now we have clean at least one wall because its full.

00:19:20: I was just at the museum and so many people drew on this wall, sometimes very beautiful small paintings.

00:19:28: I hope you took some photos!

00:19:30: Yeah yeah we take photos.

00:19:32: there is so nice But from time to time, we have to clean it because more people are coming.

00:19:38: More people want to engage.

00:19:40: and yes at the end of day It's a wall of tolerance which is everytime A new Wall Of Tolerance.

00:19:47: but you gave me a smart key point.

00:19:50: You talked about your sculpture in public space.

00:19:53: Your art Is not only paintings Not Only The series A Muslim Christian And A Jew.

00:19:58: Let's talk About Your Art.

00:20:00: What Do You do?

00:20:02: Besides This Series

00:20:05: In art school, the sculpting department was arguing with a teacher in the painting department if I'm more a sculptor or painter.

00:20:15: And I said you know...I don't care!

00:20:17: I will do anything with art You know?

00:20:21: I can draw on piece of paper and napkin Or i could use six meter brown sculpture.

00:20:28: For me, the material is not important.

00:20:32: What's important are messages.

00:20:37: and if artwork touches people opening a little hole in their protection from the world... I did my job!

00:20:50: It doesn't matter whether it was graffiti or painting or sculpting.

00:20:56: I do admit that i really, really like public art because this is something that belongs to the people and not in a white cube or some collector's basement or living room.

00:21:13: And uh... People can relate it you know by.

00:21:17: they walk by when they go to school They see again differently on evening so become part of humanity

00:21:28: and part of the community as well.

00:21:29: yes absolutely yeah you're so right.

00:21:33: So what are the topics?

00:21:35: maybe not the media but the topics you are working on?

00:21:40: You know I lived in New York for a while, old guy, an art dealer who was working with.

00:21:49: And he was telling me you have to develop your own language add a little step every time and don't change much.

00:21:59: but I had a lot of ideas.

00:22:01: so when it came to my studio i was hiding Whatever I didn't want him to see, whatever he won't say.

00:22:10: Oh it's great you know.

00:22:12: and then a young curator came And i showed in the other works.

00:22:17: He said wow!

00:22:19: You're doing projects.

00:22:21: So...I declared myself as Doing Projects And..and....i can do whatever i want.

00:22:27: I'm free of this system.

00:22:31: You know sometimes

00:22:32: Maybe that is your language doing projects.

00:22:35: Yes, absolutely!

00:22:37: So maybe

00:22:38: your art teacher was right at the end of the day because he said this developed you a language.

00:22:44: so

00:22:45: I think in my opinion...

00:22:46: So maybe it was yours and your art teachers were right because he said, develop your language.

00:22:54: So I think in my opinion you're languages to projects.

00:22:59: so i do all kind of different

00:23:02: projects.

00:23:04: but what are your project?

00:23:07: we heard

00:23:08: one of them the muslim christian energy still working on it's called graffiti girl and started with drawing graffiti without features in her face, you know just a round face.

00:23:24: and because I have two daughters.

00:23:29: I wanted them to understand what does it mean to live on the street?

00:23:34: What is this means of having

00:23:36: home?".

00:23:37: And so i drew those graffitis where homeless people lived And then I showed it to my girls and we were trying talk with them.

00:23:52: Sometimes, they didn't succeed but... One of these drawings I did in Berlin actually and the guy who lived on street with his dog, you know.

00:24:08: He was passing there every few days And once he stopped me said since you have this drawing everyone is stopping looking at me before they were just passing by You know.

00:24:21: so i took this.

00:24:22: now my daughters don't look like young girls anymore, but I still do these images.

00:24:29: You know?

00:24:44: two images of a girl and the boy on each side, off their billboard.

00:24:51: And it said everybody loves me but I don't know yet?

00:24:55: The other one everyone loves you... But i dont' know that yet!

00:24:59: So there were like two sides.

00:25:03: It was about being accepted as an immigrant in new country and they did live drawing.

00:25:13: But then we had a party, it was great.

00:25:17: I think coming from the street art you do love life drawing!

00:25:23: Do you?

00:25:23: Yes, very much.

00:25:25: I was invited by the city hall in Amsterdam to do a live drawing and each museum... In the Jewish Museum Berlin did two live drawings with audience who were eating falafel while i'm working but it was fun!

00:25:49: Anything that connects Anything that connects with the group of people, I would do it in a rock concert.

00:26:00: Yeah...I love this because i think It's so important to connect with people and also as an artist Do anything to support That To support this connection And make it happen.

00:26:15: People can not only connect to art but sometimes it needs Get a connection through the artist as well.

00:26:24: Mm-hmm because yes, you know their art of The Artist is not two separate things.

00:26:29: Yeah I also do bronze sculptures in my series that it's called.

00:26:34: Giacometti's granddaughter was a supermodel where he took Giacomati as the symbol of pure artists and the heroes of today, like a supermodel and I combined it together to create some creation that have both in same body.

00:27:00: And you also have sculpture in Amsterdam?

00:27:03: Yes!

00:27:04: The sculpture is in Red Light District.

00:27:09: It's these three figures very much connected to the Muslim Christian and the Jew.

00:27:15: But, that thing is you have a positive or negative.

00:27:19: so it's not only three but actually six of

00:27:22: them.

00:27:23: Yes I figured this out few days ago when i saw one picture is also of them in the exhibition, six features.

00:27:35: And I said oh okay there's a positive and negative side to each other every one us so that how i relate this drawing I love it so much.

00:27:49: So, at the end of day we could make a tourist guide through Europe with your paintings and sculptures in public space.

00:27:59: That's great idea!

00:28:02: Okay... One thing is still missing, the invitation to everyone who's listening to the podcast.

00:28:11: To come do an exhibition and look at art.

00:28:15: maybe meet Ira Trachina.

00:28:17: he will stay another couple of days but then come back in September.

00:28:23: I hope for a series more workshops In The Jewish Museum.

00:28:27: And until than i say bye-bye.